5 Responses

1. dean

   July 5th, 2008 at 3:18 pm

   1

   As a preface, I joined NRU by purchasing the “Regent’s” package, I went to the “college”, I tried to recruit, I have analyzed the Investor’s Concierge deals, I went to the briefings, I have heard the likes of Piccolo, Snyder, Cheri Tree, Kecia and all the other NRU hacks speak, and I’ve met and talked to many NRU “students”. So please don’t tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about. Here is my assessment of NRU. I have tried my best to be fair. For those of you familiar with NRU, this outline follows the “EPIC” presentation some of you may have been subject to.

   The Company

   1. Piccolo and Bob “the General” Snyder, the founders of NRU, have MARKETING backgrounds. Look it up. They have no prior experience with real estate investing before NRU.

   2. As a consequence of Number 1, NRU is primarily a MARKETING business. You can call it whatever you want, direct marketing, MLM, a pyramid scheme, a ponzi scheme, there may not be a perfect term, but it contains aspects of all of these concepts.

   3. Real estate investing and education is an ancillary part of NRU. It is the “product” that they sell, but it might as well be long-distance phone plans, an internet web-based business, vitamins, or make-up.

   4. NRU’s success is a direct product of the real estate mania this country has experienced over the past 7 years, not anything inherently great about the company’s products or services.

   The “Education”

   5. For $16,000, you really don’t get very much. You receive a certain number of “college” credits that expire after two years, but the catch is that you have to fly to Arizona to use them and you can only do that four times a year for a one-week period each time. There is an on-line option, but it is sub-par for a variety of reasons.

   6. The courses are amateur hour and taught in seminar-fashion. They may dazzle people who don’t have a college degree, but will offer little to those who are generally versed in basic real estate and financial concepts. The educational materials are photocopied, hand-bound booklets, sometimes just an outline of the power point presentation. The instructors appear to be knowledgeable in their field, but they are mainly interested in consulting fees and fees for other services that they offer to NRU members (not altruism as many NRU shills would like you to believe).

   7. NRU does not “teach” you anything you can’t learn by spending a few dollars on Amazon.com. There are no secret tips to learn that haven’t been published in the hundreds of real estate books you can buy on your own.

   8. The “education” is primarily a vehicle for the direct marketing aspect of NRU, just as Investor’s Concierge is there to give members credibility when they market the course. The Concierge, however, is also another mechanism by which NRU extracts additional money from its students. More on this later.

   Real Estate as an Investment Class

   9. In marketing the tuition, a great deal of emphasis is placed on how real estate can make you rich. There is little or no information on how risky investing in real estate can be. At the “briefings” (the 2-hour presentation designed to lure new members), the presenter will talk a lot about how great real estate is because of the availability of leverage and certain tax benefits. At several briefings I went to, the presenter would literally make the representation that real estate prices only go up. Finally, the presenter will talk about how terrible it is to work for a corporation and how useless a college education is (ala Robert Kiyosaki). This usually manifests itself in the form of derisive acronyms, such as JOB, which stands for “Just Over Broke”, or how only NRU can give you an MBA that’s worth anything, a “Massive Bank Account” (crowd usually goes wild here).

   10. NRU never mentions the special risks inherent in residential real estate investing, such as problem tenants, financing and interest rate risk, structural and environmental risks associated with housing, the cost of maintenance, the prospect of asset depreciation or declining rents, and the risk of litigation including from eviction and foreclosure. Bottom line, investing in residential real estate is very risky and comes with a host of hazards you would not find in other asset classes. NRU discounts all of this and presents real estate as a perpetual money tree.

   11. We will likely never experience again in our lifetimes the type of appreciation in residential real estate that we have seen these past few years. There are several reasons that this is very likely to be the case: reversion to the mean, unsustainable public/private debt burdens, massive transfer of wealth to developing nations, slowing economic growth, an aging population, greater regulation in the financial sector, etc.

   12. Historically, residential real estate prices have appreciated at the rate of inflation.

   13. Real estate, like any other asset class, carries risks that are commensurate with the returns you are likely to generate. For example, leverage is great in good times, but people are quickly learning how easy it is for your equity to get wiped out a result of relatively small declines in home prices.

   14. Investor Concierge deals are generally market-rate deals, but they are advertised to NRU students as amazing deals that generate positive cash flow. There are other sites that break this down, but generally speaking, the appraisals are usually 2-3 pages long and contain nothing more than a broker’s opinion of value, the financing is almost always interest only or neg-am, the rents are inflated, and the only way you get “positive cash flow” is if you include certain seller incentives like pre-paid HOA or guaranteed rent, most of which will expire within 2 years. Additionally, maintenance and vacancy will almost immediately eat away at the $100 of positive cash-flow a month you get. NRU members hate talking about the details of the Investor Concierge deals.

   15. Typically, there are only 15-20 available properties on the Concierge at any given time, so the pickins are slim. NRU encourages you to “reserve” a property you like as soon as you see it online, because it could get snatched up by someone else unless you do. The non-refundable fee for reserving a property is $350.

   16. Investor Concierge deals are mainly located in historically depressed or undeveloped, sub-urban or rural real estate markets, you will generally not find properties on the system in established, urban markets. These properties are likely to experience declines in this market and will not likely appreciate much at all when the economy recovers.

   17. Anyone who has purchased a deal off of Investor’s Concierge over the last two years has either lost all of their equity or is underwater. This is a terrifying prospect for many people in NRU because at the briefings, many of them go up to the front and brag about how they have bought 5, 10, 15 or even 20 properties over the past few months. Many of these people are going to have to walk away from their homes in the coming years, which will destroy their credit and eat up any ponzi money they made from the marketing.

   The Marketing

   18. The real estate investing component of NRU is used mainly to support the primary business of the company which is selling tuition packages. There are three options which cost different amounts, but most people are pressured to purchase the “Regent’s” packing together with the “Encyclopedia”, which total almost $20,000. There are certain commission and tuition-related perks you get for buying the most expensive package.

   19. The commission system is what really drives NRU. NRU members can get a 50% commission for each package they sell, so sometimes that amounts to nearly $10,000 a pop, and there is an added wrinkle that causes that number to multiply very quickly if people you sign up also, in turn, sign up additional students. The mathematics make the commission structure extremely lucrative IF YOU ARE GOOD AT SALES. This is hook that gets most people to fork over the money.

   20. Most people are unsuccessful at selling tuition packages. It’s akin to trying to sell a used car, except you would probably get more value from a junker than the “education” that NRU offers. It’s obvious why the “education” NRU offers is not worth $20,000, most of that needs to go subsidize the commission system, which is needed to lubricate the entire NRU machinery.

   21. The commission system places a lot of pressure on NRU members to sell, sell, sell. This is how all the top “producers” have made most of their money. This also creates a massive conflict of interest. More on this later.

   22. The direct marketing aspect of NRU preys on the greed and naiveté of all sorts of people, but mainly lower-middle class individuals, young people just starting out, and real estate agents/brokers, many of whom don’t have a lot of education and work crappy jobs that they aren’t happy with.

   23. NRU is tied in with the likes of Robert Kiyosaki and “The Secret”. I’m not going to bore you with the analysis, but try Google and you will find plenty of critiques.

   Conflicts of Interest

   24. NRU generates tremendous income directly from its students. They make money not only from the tuition, but also from marketing materials and services, credit services, mortgage brokerage services, accounting and legal services, special seminars, Investor Concierge transactions, all of which cost extra, and they’re not cheap. You also have to pay for lodging and the plane ticket to get to the college. All of the NRU instructors also offer consulting deals and other professional services, which also cost extra. The $16,000 for the Regent’s tuition only buys you “college” credits, you get NOTHING ELSE. You even have to buy the forms and brochures you need to sign up people for NRU. I take that back, you do get a tote bag, but it looks ridiculous.

   25. NRU members are supposed to be “mentors” to the new members who they sign up, but what they really want from you is for you to sell the tuition to others, because they will get a cut of the first few sales you make. There is a huge conflict of interest here because there is a big incentive for NRU members to sell the tuition, irrespective of the quality of the product or the unique situation of people to whom they are marketing.

   26. NRU encourages you to sell to friends and family, which destroys relationships when people are dissatisfied or feel cheated, which is often the case.

   27. The most distasteful defense of NRU to me is that “it’s not for everyone, but it worked for me”. It may be that there are some people who are successful and make lots of money in NRU, but the system cannot support a situation where most of the people in NRU make tons of money. This is the inherent, mathematical limitations of these types of marketing structures. I’m sure someone smarter than me can prove this. Likewise, the real estate market cannot support most people in NRU making money in residential real estate investing. Case in point is the short sale strategy, which NRU shills tout as the way to make money in a down market. Well, there is so much competition in short sales right now, and even more with each “college” I suppose, that short sale investors are bidding up pre-foreclosures pretty much to market. These fundamental concepts virtually guaranty that only a small minority of 28. NRU members will make any money either from the marketing or the real estate investing, and REQUIRE everyone else to fail in order for the system to sustain itself. This is the biggest conflict of interest of them all and lends to NRU’s reputation as a “scam”.

   Conclusion

   NRU is a marketing business that encourages and monetarily incentivizes its members to use high-pressure sales tactics to sell a highly expensive real estate “education” package with questionable value to unsophisticated people with the lure of quick money and unlimited riches in real estate. Success in NRU is highly dependent on (1) a booming real estate market and/or (2) a unique talent in sales and marketing. What makes NRU so insidious is that it plays on the fear and greed of ordinary people, often friends and family, most of whom will go bankrupt by following NRU investment strategies during a severe and sustained real estate down turn such as the one we are experiencing now, and most of whom will fail in selling the tuition package because they lack the sales and marketing expertise, which is further exacerbated by a declining real estate market. Taken as whole, NRU may be perfectly legal, but many people will feel like they were cheated out of thousands of dollars by someone they trusted. If after reading this, you are still interested then by all means sign up. But just be prepared to live with it if at some point you find yourself either financially bankrupt, morally bankrupt, or even worse, both.

   Epilogue

   Finally, you’re not going to see a whole lot of posts like this from people who have joined NRU. Most are very disillusioned at the loss of thousands of dollars and don’t even want to give it another thought. The rest are out searching for marks. I can only hope that NRU won’t survive this bear market in housing, and if this post can hasten its demise, so much the better. I don’t blame the person who signed me up, he incidentally has had to find a full-time job now since NRU is apparently not doing it for him. I walked into this with my eyes wide open, which shows you how greed can overcome any good judgment you may think you have. But I am thankful that I didn’t end up dragging anyone else into this apart from a good friend as my partner in this scheme, but with whom, as a result of NRU, am no longer on speaking terms. So for all of you NRU shills out there who still think you are doing God’s work, why don’t you try calling each and every person you have signed up and ask them exactly what they think about NRU. I think you will find that my experience is not so unique. If you can keep on selling after that, well then, good luck to you.

2. L Howard Milton

   July 7th, 2008 at 11:09 am

   2

   Dean,

   Interesting post. I’m involved w/ NRU since April ‘07 and have had no success, so far, w/ the marketing. I’ve been to the colleges and find them infomative and worthwhile. I concede some of your points (notably the Investor Conciege where every financing package is interest only for 2 years; what happens when the refinance occurs?) and understand your issues w/ the tuition costs and the 50% commission. During my first briefing when I heard this my first thought was that the education was therefore worth only half what they were asking. I still joined.

   Where are you located? The trainings and community varies from region to region w/ the urban areas being much better and more cohesive than what I call the American Outback areas. The training I get is top flight, first rate, excellent. That is also true of the community and our ability to inveset in deals outside the Concierge.

   Your experience was not good but I wonder if you gave it enough time for it work as it’s meant to. When did you bail out? How long did you give the process to work? Did you attend the classes and followup w/ the DVD trainings and streaming video online? Were you out there in the lonely wilds of America or did you have a local community with which to work?

   You get out of something only what you put into it and anyone with a ounce of gray matter knows that, while there may be massive profits to be made in real estate inveseting, it must be worked both hard and smart.

   While you make some valid points about the program you give a biased and negatively slanted impression. You’re right–it doesn’t work for everybody, but for those willing to use this as a platform from which to build their investment plans it’s a terrific foundation. Yes, you can get the same information in books from Barnes & Noble or Borders; you can go online and learn from there; you can attend real estate networking groups and hope to find a mentor. But if you’re looking to get involved (or re-involved as was my case) in real estate and wonder how to crack into this complicated and mysterious world, then there are much, much worse places to begin than NRU. The true villains of this industry are the GURUs and their bootcamps.

   Take care and feel free to disagree w/ me.

   LHM

3. Jim

   July 15th, 2008 at 4:28 am

   3

   Let me preface my comments with my connection to NR. February of 2006 I was introduced to the business, and after a brief investigation of my own, my wife and I made it to our first college with about 300 other individuals. (Compared to approx. 3,000 attending recent sessions, in Arizona)

   I gather from Dean’s comments he’s done a lot of homework, thinking, analysis and made some assumptions. Well, from another left-brain individual who isn’t one of the top income earners for the company, nor even a record-holder for the SF Bay Area; I wanted to also respond for those who stumble onto this blog. I’ve picked up a few Investor Concierge properties, and they are positive-cashflow. (Sure, a few missed month’s rent - the realities of being a landlord). The business side (recruiting) isn’t all “Ho-Ho’s and Ding Dongs”. It’s been an interesting ride. When all is said and done - I made some mistakes (”I”, I made the decisions of my own free will. I live with some consequences of an unexpected down-turn and some bad loans). I have found a phenomenal community, a powerfully empowering education, and more importantly: myself.

   As part of the process to becoming an entrepreneur, some of us have a lot to learn. As a business major, I thought I could figure this business out quickly. I found I had some personal development to endure. Only the most successful entrepreneurs seem to recognize that success is a process - no matter what business. The more I associate with them, read about them, and study them…the more I am developed. What other company provides the education, the support (locally and professionally) and an opportunity as leveraged, and yet fair (you get paid for your own efforts) as NR? When the leader of this organization is invited to the White House to participate in a roundtable discussion with the likes of Charles Schwab (Comitte on Financial Literacy) - you just might have a leader worth following ;- )

   The Company

   1. Piccolo and Bob “the General” Snyder, the founders of NRU, have MARKETING backgrounds. Look it up. They have no prior experience with real estate investing before NRU.

   NR is a business, as is the Real Market Experts/InvestorConcierge.com (RME), Nouveau University (Success Magazine, June 2008 special feature), etc. Napolean Hill (Think and Grow Rich) learned by interviewing some of the most financially successful individuals (ironically, during the last recession/depression) that those success stories started with a visionary entrepreneur and a successful marketing expert (Jim…and Bob in our case). Sure, their foundation was in business. They started NR as a business venture, not as professed Real Estate Investor experts. Successful individuals surround themselves with the right professionals and leverage their experience. It’s their leadership and marketing experience that have allowed those professionals (NR instructors) to be available in one place to anyone who wants that leverage for themselves. Oh they understand Real Estate too…as private investors they have done millions in transactions.

   2. As a consequence of Number 1, NRU is primarily a MARKETING business. You can call it whatever you want, direct marketing, MLM, a pyramid scheme, a ponzi scheme, there may not be a perfect term, but it contains aspects of all of these concepts.

   Hmmm, if the principle of ‘business ownership’ is the most successful route to success financially, you are going to need to find customers. Word-of-mouth is the most successful. How do you motivate that effort? Compensation. Oh I’ll tell friends about a good business ‘just because’, but I’ll share it even more if you compensate me for my time/effort. Now that compensation plan can be as creative as it can be. Bob did take pieces from various compensation plans to create the one we use. Is there anything wrong with taking the best parts?

   3. Real estate investing and education is an ancillary part of NRU. It is the “product” that they sell, but it might as well be long-distance phone plans, an internet web-based business, vitamins or make-up.

   Ah, this seems to suggest NR is an actual business that uses creative “grass roots” marketing efforts. Sure! If the average person realizes they need another stream of income, with a low start-up cost - your choices are many. Of those products you might market for that stream of income, where do you feel the most value will be provided? Phone plans? web-based businesses? Vitamins? Soaps? (you get the point). However, education is the PRIMARY part of NR. (The presentation spends the most time there). Education is the foundation. It’s the primary product. Is education valuable to you? Then consider the additional benefits/services that are exclusively provided to NR students. Huge value!

   4. NRU’s success is a direct product of the real estate mania this country has experienced over the past 7 years, not anything inherently great about the company’s products or services.

   Market research…during the past 2 years the media has put a damper on Real Estate. Sub-prime market dropping out has affected people’s ability to get funding for property. Yes, there are fewer buyers (still plenty of sellers…do you read “opportunity”? but I digress…) NR’s success has continued to grow at over 200%/year. They hype is gone, The students continue to grow. Oh, and those statistics about 75% of 1% of the population remain. That means a minority of the average Americans will “get it”, or even if they “get it” will have the courage to make it happen. We aren’t expecting everyone to come to college. As a company, doing great. Sales volume is strong. Satisfaction ratings from students who sat in class is over 94% (approval rating).

   The “Education”

   5. For $16,000, you really don’t get very much. You receive a certain number of “college” credits that expire after two years, but the catch is that you have to fly to Arizona to use them and you can only do that four times a year for a one-week period each time. There is an on-line option, but it is sub-par for a variety of reasons.

   (Notice the on-line option is “sub-par”…sounds like Dean was at least somewhat impressed with the classroom experience) Your credits expire after 2 years, true. You could attend a Junior college for 2 years’ worth of credits spread out over 4 years. That knowledge doesn’t change much. If you’re doing to learn Real Estate Investing strategies and spread out that experience over 4 years…the market will shift. This is specific, current knowledge. You also need to be incentivized/motivated to take action. 2 years puts a deadline that will create a sense of urgency: Do something now! J Oh, and what do you compare the NR experience with? Weekend seminars? Week-long boot camps? That’s the only place you’ll get this kind of knowledge. “Fly to Arizona?” Well, if you want the option to learn from various professionals without flying to various locations (seminars?) across the nation – how about flying to one location and meeting all of them there?

   6. The courses are amateur hour and taught in seminar-fashion. They may dazzle people who don’t have a college degree, but will offer little to those who are generally versed in basic real estate and financial concepts. The educational materials are photocopied, hand-bound booklets, sometimes just an outline of the power point presentation. The instructors appear to be knowledgeable in their field, but they are mainly interested in consulting fees and fees for other services that they offer to NRU members (not altruism as many NRU shills would like you to believe).

   “Seminar-fashion?” . How about that ISD process? Consider that each instructor (seasoned investors mind you) is required to be taught how to teach. They do a video recording of themselves teaching and are evaluated, critiqued; and only after passing a list of certain criteria are they allowed to teach. They are not professional speakers. The materials…aren’t ‘glossy’ enough? Do you want hard-bound books like college? Well, since the materials are updated between colleges that would get expensive…and the cost passed on to students. Yes, there are often copies of the Powerpoint slides. Funny, in every class I attended, that’s exactly what the students wanted so they can follow the instruction more closely. That way you can take notes right on the booklet and make sense of your notes later. (I wish my college instructors provided something similar!) Consulting fees or other services? Mark Kohler comes to mind. If you met/heard Mark teach you’ll realize he’s passionate about what he does. He’s not working for food J. If you want his professional services, you’ll pay for them. He served me a few years ago, and offered a discounted option to setting up my legal entity in an effort to save me money. (His own paralegals doing the same work at 1/3 the price) Investors who teach are forbidden from soliciting business for any additional ‘consulting’ or services they offer. If you want to partner with them, many/most will do so…and split the profits. Is that fair? They don’t make their living off students partnering. In fact, imagine the additional time they have to take teaching you and I when they could probably get twice the number of deals done in the same time! I see and feel a sincere desire by the instructors for my success. Sure they have to feed their families, but I never got the feeling “pay me first, then I’ll help you”. Never.

   7. NRU does not “teach” you anything you can’t learn by spending a few dollars on Amazon.com. There are no secret tips to learn that haven’t been published in the hundreds of real estate books you can buy on your own.

   “A few dollars”…perhaps in a few dozen books you could read up on a particular strategy and get a grasp of it. Most likely that information is pretty out-dated. And can you contact that author with questions? “Are you still using the same steps today in your business? Can you help me figure out my own market to use your system? Can I call you with questions when I have surprises pop up?” Not likely. Information is available. You could skip college and learn from your neighborhood attorney how to become an attorney. Maybe he’s your dad. That could work. What if you don’t know a successful investor who’s willing to take that time with you? Yellow pages? J Want access to current information from current investors and a community to support you? I don’t know anywhere else than NR.

   8. The “education” is primarily a vehicle for the direct marketing aspect of NRU, just as Investor’s Concierge is there to give members credibility when they market the course. The Concierge, however, is also another mechanism by which NRU extracts additional money from its students. More on this later.

   Huh? So hamburgers are just an excuse for Ray Kroc to make a living? If there is a product/service people want, and you can make a profit marketing it – isn’t that “business”? And what can that education do for you? How about those hamburgers? The direct marketing (“Direct Sales”) aspect is the opportunity for a cashflowing (leveraged) business. Over time you’ll run that business, but not be the only person building the cashflow. Concerge - yes, money is made when one purchases a property. (Was this ever non-profit?) The RME franchises are licensed RE professionals. They make a commission on the properties they sell. They’re realtors! There may be a residual profit to Jim Piccolo. I don’t know. Is there anything wrong with that? He started that company. He created something no-one else has done that provides a valuable service. Does the student receive value? That depends on the customer: you. If you don’t see value, you don’t have to use the service. I used it. It gave me a huge value!

   Real Estate as an Investment Class

   9. In marketing the tuition, a great deal of emphasis is placed on how real estate can make you rich. There is little or no information on how risky investing in real estate can be. At the “briefings” (the 2-hour presentation designed to lure new members), the presenter will talk a lot about how great real estate is because of the availability of leverage and certain tax benefits. At several briefings I went to, the presenter would literally make the representation that real estate prices only go up. Finally, the presenter will talk about how terrible it is to work for a corporation and how useless a college education is (ala Robert Kiyosaki). This usually manifests itself in the form of derisive acronyms, such as JOB, which stands for “Just Over Broke”, or how only NRU can give you an MBA that’s worth anything, a “Massive Bank Account” (crowd usually goes wild here).

   I’m glad we’re clear on “marketing the tuition”. The “Opportunity meeting” is a marketing effort, not a Real Estate education experience. It is designed to create the awareness that Real Estate has a huge potential for wealth creation, not to prepare you to take action. One must do their own “due diligence” before engaging in Real Estate as an investor. The education is one way to acquire the truth from real investors who aren’t presenting ‘fluff’ in the classroom. The opportunity is two-fold (“Dual-income opportunity”) long-term wealth in Real Estate, and/or short-term wealth by marketing NR. Again, we’re in marketing mode: if you don’t like your job, we’re offering you an option to get out of it. If that’s not you…you’ll just have to endure the “income” portion of the presentation. NR does provide the most significant income (lump-sum) with the lowest start-up cost ($75) anywhere I know of.

   10. NRU never mentions the special risks inherent in residential real estate investing, such as problem tenants, financing and interest rate risk, structural and environmental risks associated with housing, the cost of maintenance, the prospect of asset depreciation or declining rents, and the risk of litigation including from eviction and foreclosure. Bottom line, investing in residential real estate is very risky and comes with a host of hazards you would not find in other asset classes. NRU discounts all of this and presents real estate as a perpetual money tree.

   Maybe Dean missed the class? I remember many instructors mentioning the down-sides. They teach how to minimize that risk in the classroom. “Understanding Mortgages” is a class specifically discussing the risks/rewards with money as it relates to financing. Even in our briefings we talk about the value marketing provides if you’re going to do buy-hold investing (‘cost of maintenance’) or as Steve Clegg just mentioned at the Intensive…that $85k for his rehab in Sacramento. That income came from marketing. There is risk. The higher the risk, the greater the potential for reward. Getting yourself educated, and doing your due diligence you’ll understand those risks and manage them. If one is averse to that risk, they probably feel more comfortable in that job (secure). That person may feel great about Mutual Funds (less risk…less reward) or other asset classes. If done right, the most successful do create a ‘perpetual money tree’. They still follow the law of the harvest: plant, water, weed, wait…dry years, floods, etc. WORK!

   11. We will likely never experience again in our lifetimes the type of appreciation in residential real estate that we have seen these past few years. There are several reasons that this is very likely to be the case: reversion to the mean, unsustainable public/private debt burdens, massive transfer of wealth to developing nations, slowing economic growth, an aging population, greater regulation in the financial sector, etc.

   Interesting observation. I think if you looked at editorial comments over the past 40 years there were guys like this who felt the market had peaked, and would never recover. Basic economics: Supply/Demand. Population is increasing. People want to live inside houses. Appreciation has continued positive on average, nationwide, or the past 40 years. (National Association of Realtors) It does go up and come down; but it averages positive over time. (Sounds like stocks, doesn’t it? And that investment is secured by…?)

   12. Historically, residential real estate prices have appreciated at the rate of inflation.

   We generally hear an average inflation rate of 3%/year. Real Estate appreciating at 6%/year. Do the math.

   13. Real estate, like any other asset class, carries risks that are commensurate with the returns you are likely to generate. For example, leverage is great in good times, but people are quickly learning how easy it is for your equity to get wiped out a result of relatively small declines in home prices.

   Yes! Don’t just buy based on equity. That is called “speculation”. Buy Real Estate at the best discount you can, understanding the current Real Estate cycle. Understanding the risks you make the best decision you can. If your property cashflows, and the equity disappears, does it matter? Over time that equity will return but all along the way your renter is paying the monthly mortgage. You have a reserve to cover missed rents; but over time you’re confident that money will be there (more than FDIC-insured up-to-$100k).

   14. Investor Concierge deals are generally market-rate deals, but they are advertised to NRU students as amazing deals that generate positive cash flow. There are other sites that break this down, but generally speaking, the appraisals are usually 2-3 pages long and contain nothing more than a broker’s opinion of value, the financing is almost always interest only or neg-am, the rents are inflated, and the only way you get “positive cash flow” is if you include certain seller incentives like pre-paid HOA or guaranteed rent, most of which will expire within 2 years. Additionally, maintenance and vacancy will almost immediately eliminate the $100 or so of positive cash-flow a month you may get. NRU members hate talking about the details of the Investor Concierge deals.

   Ask me! Yes, the advertised loans are frequently interest-only. If you only put 5% down, that’s how cashflow will work. If you put more down, you can restructure the loan and still cashflow. (Cashflow…business income; what a concept) “Appraisals” are different from BPOs (Broker’s Price Opinion). Generally you will find BPOs, not appraisals. They ARE 3rd party. (Remember, FTC/SEC regulation here?) Many do have short-term incentives. (Sounds like seller incentives that are offered in most retail transaction) That is clearly documented. So the question becomes “What is your strategy for this property?” If it’s Lease-Option, you expect the “renter” to buy after 2 years. You get positive cashflow for those 2 years, and then you’re out. For 2 years you benefited with tax benefits, and the equity when you sell. (You bought with an equity position, right?) Supposing the market shifts downward in those 2 years. You are still the owner. You may lose. There are not guarantees. RME provide an option for acquiring Real Estate across the nation ($65k+ properties) without having to put a team together in each geography. If you want more control, learn how to apply the education in your local market. Short-term transactions are more protected from values dropping. Buy cheaper, sell under market, make money – even in a down market.

   15. Typically, there are only 15-20 available properties on the Concierge at any given time, so the pickins’ are slim. NRU encourages you to “reserve” a property you like as soon as you see it online because it could get snatched up by someone else unless you do. The NON-REFUNDABLE fee for reserving a property is $350.

   How many properties are available depends on the day. How many can you buy in a week? Month? If there are 15-20 available, then it would seem supply exceeds demand? Knowing the quality of the service (FTC/SEC; positive cashflow, equity, and nationwide teams)…I know what I can expect. You can find a greater supply if you look over the MLS. I hope you understand each market, and build your own team in each area without RME. Non-Refundable fee, yep. Would you rather a free reservation? Imagine the available properties if you had no skin in the game? And I had an occasion where I didn’t/couldn’t close on the property I reserved. I was able to transfer that $350 fee to another RME property. They were very flexible.

   16. Investor Concierge deals are mainly located in historically depressed or undeveloped, sub-urban or rural real estate markets, you will generally not find properties on the system in established, urban markets. These properties are likely to experience declines in this current bear market and will not likely appreciate much at all when the economy recovers.

   “Historically depressed”…Orem Utah? Denver Colorado? Just a few of my properties from RME, and these areas aren’t rural. They’re not downtown Salt Lake City or San Francisco (“Urban”) Don’t most people prefer sub-urban housing? Then again, the concept of “metropolitan” communities would include these specific cities as such. And we’re moving to “Megapolitan” areas. Define “sub-urban”? J “not likely appreciate much at all when the economy recovers”. Wow…what data supports that?

   17. Anyone who has purchased a deal off of Investor’s Concierge over the last two years has either lost all of their equity and/or is underwater. This is a terrifying prospect for many people in NRU because at the briefings, many of them go up to the front and brag about how they have bought 5, 10, 15 or even 20 properties over the past few months. Many of these people are going to have to walk away from their homes in the coming years, which will destroy their credit and eat up any ponzi money they made from the marketing. Anyone even thinking about joining NRU should be asking the ISAs for a detailed breakdown of their current real estate portfolios.

   Just ask. I suspect Dean’s either buying into the media, or lives in a market like California. Sure, we took a big hit. We also saw huge appreciation over the past 5-10 years. Other areas of the nation didn’t got up as much, and aren’t going to fall as hard. Localized markets. “Anyone” is pretty broad. Sure, some (Cherie Tree for example, who purchased dozens of properties from the IC) have liquidated some properties, but not all. Some are hurting. (Lacking oxygen, or money. If you don’t have extra income to sustain lost rents/maintenance – you don’t belong in buy/hold)

   The Marketing

   18. The real estate investing component of NRU is used mainly to support the primary business of the company which is selling tuition packages. For an additional $75, you can become an Independent Student Advisor (“ISA”) and can go out and sell the tuition packages on behalf of NRU. There are three options which cost different amounts, but most people are pressured to purchase the most expensive package, the “Regent’s” tuition together with the “Encyclopedia”, which total almost $20,000. There are certain commission and tuition-related perks you get for buying this package.

   Great, the money is now out in the open. Did you know most seminar companies and/or boot camps cost much, much more at the end of the day? Is it the high price that will turn someone away from getting involved? What can one accomplish as a result of the education? Just the numbers: What Return on Investment can one reach for that $20k? This is a business, helping you create your own business. If it makes good business sense, do it! If you don’t think you can do it – don’t! (Thanks for mentioning the “perks”…which add thousands of dollars in value for that $20k investment, but then we’re focusing on the negative here, right? J)

   19. The commission system is what really drives NRU. NRU members receive a 50% commission for each tuition package they sell, so that can amount to nearly $10,000 a pop. Commissions are further leveraged by the requirement that each new person you sign up bring you two additional recruits before they can be “certified” and start collecting their 50% commission, with the commission for those first two recruits going to you (that’s almost an additional $20,000 on top of the $10,000 you already made from the first guy). Then, each of those two fresh recruits that were handed to you also need to bring you two new recruits before they can get “certified” (yes, that’s another $40,000 on top of the $20,000 on top of the $10,000). You see where this is going. Of course, before you can begin collecting any commissions at all, you need to bring YOUR ISA two fresh recruits and get “certified” as well. This “pyramiding” aspect of the commission structure makes it extremely lucrative IF YOU ARE GOOD AT SALES. This is hook that gets most people to fork over the money. If you get out a piece of paper, you will see how quickly you can get to $1 million. Also, the commission structure is subject to change by NRU AT ANY TIME.

   Pretty good explanation in one paragraph! I sense the “IF YOU ARE GOOD AT SALES” part is the biggest concern…So if you believe being a business owner is important, sales is something you will live and breathe by. Right? So if you can learn to become more proficient at sales from the “Direct Sales” training NR provides to marketers, are you not being developed into a better, more effective business owner? And getting paid better than any other part-time job? Something else…being “good at sales” really means you’re good at connecting with people, that you have a strong confidence in yourself and your product/service. The personal development that goes along with learning to become more effective in marketing NR is awesome, powerful and life-changing…personally and professionally. The most successful business owners have mentors and coaches. If you don’t, then this is a perfect opportunity to start that development process.

   20. But even the commission structure has a catch, one that NRU only recently started to be more upfront about. NRU used to present the commission system as requiring that you bring your ISA two fresh recruits before you begin collecting commissions for additional recruits yourself. But if you actually read the commission rules, you will find that you in fact, need to bring your ISA FOUR new recruits, NOT TWO. My ISA sold me NRU telling me I only had to bring him TWO, when in fact, the rules say you have bring him FOUR. His explanation to me AFTER I signed up was that he would “manually” certify me on the system after I bring him two recruits. Well, that’s fine for me, but how the hell was I supposed to sell this thing to others? I could not guarantee that they would all get “manually” certified after two sales because that’s not how the commission rules work. My partner was furious about this, but this is the type of thing that happens when you incentivize people to aggressively market any product. There are other hidden rules as well, one that pretty much requires that you have to keep selling indefinitely to keep the stream of money flowing. Anyone even thinking about signing up should ask to see a copy of the rules on paper before you do anything and read it very, very carefully, because it is confusing.

   “Buy one, sell two” was something that used to be spoken of often. We focused on “getting certified”. Buying one Collection, and selling 2 Collections puts you in a money-earning position. “Truth”. Regents (tuition) certification does require 2 personal, additional, sales to be “5-star certified”. That was confusing, so we clarified starting about a year ago. You could spell it out even more clearly (as displayed on the Powerpoint at the briefing) to: sell 2 Collections, sell 4 Regents (that’s 6!) as a worst-case scenario. “Team Sales” bring that personal requirement down to the “4” noted in the paragraph above. There is a specific slide that says “talk to the person who brought you for a more complete understanding…”. I agree with him: “Ask to see a copy of the rules” if you wish. You could spend $75 if you are just reluctant to spend $20k, and see the contract yourself, and the training, and the materials available to an NR marketer. You’re out $75, not $20k. After all…the marketing is COMPLETELY SEPARATE from the education.

   21. Most people are unsuccessful at selling tuition packages. It’s akin to trying to sell a used car, except you would probably get more value from a junker than the “education” that NRU offers. Most people are simply not good as selling used cars and most people wouldn’t feel good about it either. The problem is that the “education” and other ancillary services are simply not worth $20,000 and it’s obvious why: most of that needs to go subsidize the commission system, which is needed to lubricate the entire NRU machinery. So unless you’re committed to selling and you’re good at it, you’re likely to be very disappointed.

   “Most” is probably reflecting this guy’s circle of peers. (What was that about your network = Net worth?) Yes, there is a 50% attrition rate. Wow! Remember the 1% wealthy? 1% is a very small number. If we can raise that nationwide figure to 2%, is it worth it? It is to that extra 1%! So 50% of those who want to be successful gave up. Or did they decide they’d rather focus on Real Estate and not marketing (yet)? We don’t have statistics to prove exactly what each $75 marketer did over the past 5 years. We also don’t require students to disclose their Real Estate portfolio. We provide education. We measure the effectiveness of that education from students as they finish each class. There was a poll taken recently at college where students report 67% of them acquired investment properties as a result of the education. Is it worth $20k? That depends on how you run your Real Estate business. Is the price inflated to accommodate 50% commission? Well, is the education worth $20k or isn’t it? Most people who are finding success claim $20k is not high enough!

   22. The commission system places a lot of pressure on NRU members to sell, sell, sell. This is how all the top “producers” have made most of their money. This also creates a massive conflict of interest. More on this later.

   Conflict of interest? You should provide education as a service, but not charge for it? Seems to penalize the sales part (whatever the compensation plan) required to find customers; unless I’m missing something?

   23. The direct marketing aspect of NRU preys on the greed and naiveté of all sorts of people, but mainly lower-middle class individuals, young people just starting out, and real estate agents/brokers, many of whom don’t have a lot of education and work crappy jobs that they aren’t happy with.

   Interesting perspective. So if I’m a middle class employee (living paycheck-to-paycheck) I’m not going to “fall” for the need for business/Real Estate Investing. I’m satisfied. I feel like I have my needs met. Perhaps this group is just too proud to admit they’re living paycheck-to-paycheck? Perhaps the cashflow is working fine today, but when they lose their job reality will set in? Perhaps they just can’t stomach the risk to their lifestyle by making a transition? Yes, many lower-middle class individuals find a business appealing. They are disadvantaged by not having a formal education, or a profession. HOWEVER (if you’ve ever played Cashflow 101) they are also the most likely to become successful at business because their lifestyle (expenses) can more easily be surpassed. By the way, if they’re not making enough, and aren’t happy – why not give them an opportunity to make better money and become developed as an entrepreneur? Is $20k a lot of money for someone making $40k/year? Yes! If they are that motivated, will they have what it takes to make it happen in marketing or Real Estate? More likely than that upper-middle class professional! If I have a great job (income) with perks and an office…what motivation do I have to spend my evenings building a part-time business? How about the other end…retirement. Not looking good for 95% of today’s 65 year-olds. The government (Committee on Financial Literacy) has essentially given up on even educating the current working population (30 years and older) on financial literacy. Maybe I’m biased, but if you think you know enough…you don’t know what you don’t know J.

   Oh, and how about the likes of Dan and Jen Silver. Ivy League graduates, already successful investors and entrepreneurs. After 12 years of secondary education at schools like UC Berkeley – ask them how solid NR education is compared to their prior experience. How about accredited investors who get started with Nouveau Riche? The likes of Andrew Yurosek from Chicago, who had a small network/following of his own as a very successful investor and turned his focus to NR to take his business to the next level. Many “educated” and experience folks recognize a unique opportunity with NR. Just ask around for others’ experiences.

   24. NRU is tied in with the likes of Robert Kiyosaki and “The Secret”. I’m not going to bore you with the analysis, but try Google and you will find plenty of critiques.

   Half-full, or half-empty?
   Some people take any subject to the extreme. The Internet has been described as the nation’s wall of graffiti. You’ll find whatever you’re looking for. It’s what you choose to do with that information that makes you who you are. I don’t agree with everything in either Kiyosaki’s books nor everything in “The Secret”; but if I reject everything because I don’t agree with something – I’ll have a pretty grim outlook on society, and maybe my own life?

   Conflicts of Interest

   25. NRU generates tremendous income directly from its students. They make money not only from the tuition, but also from marketing materials and services, credit services, mortgage brokerage services, accounting and legal services, special seminars, Investor Concierge transactions, all of which cost extra, and they’re not cheap. You also have to pay for lodging and the plane ticket to get to the college. All of the NRU instructors also offer consulting deals and other professional services, which also cost extra. The $16,000 for the Regent’s tuition only buys you “college” credits, you get NOTHING ELSE. You even have to buy the forms and brochures you need to sign up people for NRU. I take that back, you do get a tote bag, but it looks ridiculous.
   It should also be clarified that $16,000 is for a 2 year education (12 weeks/year), for 2 people ($8,000/person). If you chose to attend Duke University, you pay for books, travel, food, etc. $75 was the cost to start a business as a marketer (1099 independent contractor).

   Ah, it sounds like Dean is an employee. If I decided to start a business, I’d have expenses. I’d pay for marketing materials, I’d get a small business loan, a CPA, and I’d hopefully be spending time (and money) each year to keep on top of my business/market. I will probably pay some travel expenses to get to that training. We live in a free-market economy. Services aren’t free. (Unless you live in Corporate America and all of this is covered by the Corporate Credit Card. Don’t you think your Corporation is handling the associated expenses on their books? Wouldn’t you rather be in their position, pocketing the profits of the company instead of just your salary? J)

   As noted earlier, some instructors do offer specific services (personal coaching, professional CPA services, joint-venture on real estate deals). These aren’t “buy now, discount today only” offers. You’ll probably get a 5 minute “Hey, I do this too. If you could use a coach/mentor, see me after class”. No upselling for more education on the class topic. Call the instructor after class and ask follow-up questions about the class for FREE. (Oh, and that tote bag is full of some of those marketing materials. And your mentor will probably be willing to help get you started with some marketing materials since they will be compensated for your efforts)

   26. NRU members are supposed to be “mentors” to the new members who they sign up, but what they really want from you is for you to sell the tuition to others, because they will the commission for the first few sales you make. There is a huge conflict of interest here because there is a big incentive for NRU members to sell the tuition, irrespective of the quality of the product or the unique situation of people to whom they are marketing.

   Yes, your mentor is mentoring you on the marketing…not Real Estate investing. They are mentoring you because you decided you wanted to become a marketer of the education. If you don’t see value in the product, you won’t spend $75 and won’t care about the mentor you don’t have. They are compensated for their efforts training you. Isn’t that fair? Otherwise they’re helping you and maybe dozens of others for free. Their family needs to eat too!

   I want to specifically comment on “..irrespective of the …situation of people to whom they are marketing”. Bob Snyder (co-found) has said numerous times in his trainings that he will not encourage someone to buy the tuition if he doesn’t believe they can be successful. Not even spend $75 if he doesn’t feel they’ll be successful. That’s just ethical. Truth be known, we are trained to find people we feel would be successful, who may seem more successful than we do. “Enroll up”. If that person (sounds like the middle-class person who wouldn’t see the value) decides to get involved, can we assume he was educated enough (did his due diligence) to make a good decision?

   27. NRU encourages you to sell to friends and family, which destroys relationships when people are dissatisfied or feel cheated, which is often the case.

   “Often”? I had friends who enrolled my wife (and me reluctantly) into Amway years ago. We quit at some point. I still value those friendships. I have friends I have enrolled who are still not “rich”. They are struggling as entrepreneurs, but they still believe the education is totally worth the tuition they financed. What they realized is they aren’t (yet) willing to do what it takes to make their business work. Perhaps it’s timing, perhaps it’s courage, but they all believe Real Estate is the best way to retire younger and wealthier.

   28. The most distasteful defense of NRU to me is that “it’s not for everyone, but it worked for me”. It may be that there are some people who are successful and make lots of money in NRU, but the system cannot support a situation where most of the people in NRU make tons of money. This is the inherent, mathematical limitations of these types of marketing structures. I’m sure someone smarter than me can prove this. Likewise, the real estate market cannot support most people in NRU making money in residential real estate investing. Case in point is the short sale strategy, which NRU shills tout as the way to make money in a down market. Well, there is so much competition in short sales right now, and even more with each “college”, that short sale investors are bidding up pre-foreclosures pretty much to market. These two fundamental concepts virtually guaranty that only a small minority of NRU members will make any money either from the marketing or the real estate investing, and REQUIRE everyone else to fail in order for the system to sustain itself. This is the biggest conflict of interest of them all and lends to NRU’s reputation as a “scam”.

   “the system cannot support a situation where most of the people in NRU make tons of money”. Well, 50% is part of the business model. As long as a student is enrolled, someone is making 50%. Until the great majority of the American population is enrolled (within 2 years, of course) there will be opportunity to increase the education level of the average American by additional enrollments, and a 50% commission. That’s business. Microsoft found they could continue selling Windows way beyond what all of the Unix vendors thought would happen. Then they created a new version. Now those same customers need to “upgrade” to remain competitive. Hmmm, after 2 years I have Windows 2000. I might want to stay current (competitive) by attending a 2nd session of college. (either another 50% commission, unless that person is a certified marketer, in which case they pay “wholesale” – only $8,000) The business model is brilliant, and Microsoft isn’t slowing down either J.
   As for Short Sales as a strategy…the market has shifted in the past few years. Banks still want to get Real Estate off their books, and will take a discount to remain solvent. (As we’ve watched some lending institutions go under lately) The discount they accept may be reduced due to competition. OK, adjust! Now REOs are up as those foreclosed properties are on the books, and banks want to get them off – still discounted from the original loan amount in most cases. What about all the competition driving up prices on REOs? How about a different strategy? There are dozens of strategies or ways to make money in Real Estate if you know how to do it right.
   The whole competition argument sounds like something from Microsoft’s anti-trust case. NR is only 5 years old. They hardly have a corner on the market, much less the Real Estate Investor market. WHEN they get to that point, I’m sure Jim Piccolo will do something similar to Bill Gates and adjust, adapt, and succeed.

   Conclusion

   NRU is a marketing business that encourages and monetarily incentivizes its members to use high-pressure sales tactics to sell a very expensive real estate “education” package with questionable value to unsophisticated people with the lure of quick money and unlimited riches in real estate. Success in NRU is highly dependent on (1) a booming real estate market and/or (2) a unique talent in sales and marketing. What makes NRU so insidious is that it plays on the fear and greed of ordinary people, often friends and family, most of whom will go bankrupt by following NRU investment strategies during a severe and sustained real estate down turn such as the one we are experiencing now, and most of whom will fail in selling the tuition package because they lack the sales and marketing expertise which is further exacerbated by a declining real estate market. Taken as whole, NRU may be perfectly legal, but many people will feel like they were cheated out of thousands of dollars by someone they trusted. If after reading this, you are still interested then by all means sign up. But just be prepared to live with it if at some point you find yourself either financially bankrupt, morally bankrupt, or even worse, both.

   “High Pressure” J J J This must have been the ONLY ‘opportunity’ Dean guy ever attended. The presentation ends with “What is your interest level”. If you’re not interested, you say so, and it’s over. We don’t chase prospects. The fact he is a Regents tuition holder tells me he saw value at one point in time.
   “Quick Money”. Maybe his mentor was successful right away and he felt he would be too. For $75 you’re not guaranteed success, you have to work. You have to follow the system, put in the time and perhaps Professional personal coaching before you become successful.
   “Booming Real Estate market”. C’mon…a friend of mine in Sacramento picked up a property last week with $50k in equity. Another almost $100k. That’s based on an estimated 60-day sale price. You want to see the escrow checks? Just ask. Buying real estate creatively is not a new industry. Many people are successful at it, even without NR. We just saw that opportunity to empower others to figure it out and created a business out of it. You win by learning how to create income even in a down market. The company wins in business profits. The marketer makes a portion for their service as the recruiter. Did anyone lose?

   Bankrupt? Over $20k? I suspect this person had financial problems to begin with, or made some poor decisions. Even with the resources to make better financial decisions, individuals are individually accountable for their own decisions. There are no guarantees in this business, or any other. A couple I know very well purchased a business for a couple hundred thousand dollars to open a franchise in Boise, ID a few years ago. They have been on the edge of bankruptcy for the past 6 months. Was it the company’s fault? From their perspective, a chunk of the responsibility is due to lack of support. (Which NR places a lot of time/energy/effort – and created a culture of support) That’s on the franchise. The other part is their personal decision not to run their business on Sundays. This is the reality of business ownership! A frank conversation with them will also reveal they still believe in entrepreneurship.

   “Be prepared”. Definitely. Do your research. If you see opportunity – get started! If not – run! Whatever you decide, the reality remains that 95% of today’s 65 year-olds aren’t retiring wealthy. If you don’t do something, you may still end up broke at 65…a little old to get a well-paying job, and you’ll probably be too tired to start a new business. Think about it.

   Epilogue

   Finally, you’re not going to see a whole lot of posts like this from people who have joined NRU. Most are very disillusioned at the loss of thousands of dollars and don’t even want to give it another thought. The rest are out searching for marks. I can only hope that NRU won’t survive this bear market in housing, and if this post can hasten its demise, so much the better. I don’t blame the person who signed me up, he incidentally has had to find a full-time job now since NRU is apparently not doing it for him. I walked into this with my eyes wide open, which shows you how greed can overcome any good judgment you may think you have. But I am thankful that I didn’t end up dragging anyone else into this apart from a good friend as my partner in this scheme, but with whom, as a result of NRU, am no longer on speaking terms. So for all of you NRU shills out there who still think you are doing God’s work, why don’t you try calling each and every person you have signed up and ask them exactly what they think about NRU. I think you will find that my experience is not so unique. If you can keep on selling after that, well then, good luck to you.”

   I hear regret. That’s unfortunate. I’d rather fail than never try, and never know what might have been. After all, it’s just money. You only have one opportunity at life. If you haven’t achieved, or aren’t on track to achieve your life goals (whatever they might be), don’t sell yourself short. Pursue your goals/dreams. We’ve got to get away from the old thinking that you save all your life, and at 65 you’ll retire on that savings. Yes, keep a savings to preserve you from unexpected expenses, but if you don’t take control of that excess savings to invest – you’re not going to see retirement as your parents did. And if there isn’t any excess savings…how’s that working for you?

   By the way Dean. I hope you’re not offended by anything I said? I appreciate your attention to detail, uncovering/summarizing very good key points, questions and concerns. I can tell you’ve done your homework. I appreciate your position, and respect your closing aknowledgement that it does work for some people. I even appreciate the fact you took the time to write so much. And for anyone doing their due diligence…the fact opinions are being expressed gives credibility to the momentum NR has created.

   Just wait until next month when we expand offerings to service ALL entrepreneurs, not just Real Estate Investors! The official launch is 08/08/08. More on that later!

4. Doctor Sully

   September 12th, 2008 at 4:28 am

   4

   Dear Jim,

   Your posting was very educational and detailed. Thank you

   (And for anyone doing their due diligence…the fact opinions are being expressed gives credibility to the momentum NR has created.

   Just wait until next month when we expand offerings to service ALL entrepreneurs, not just Real Estate Investors! The official launch is 08/08/08. More on that later!)

   Please explain this posting. What changes were made to the system
   and commission plan ?

   Big Question Jim: Every company using the Aussie 1 or 2 Up Comp Plan
   generally allow the mover and shapers to make finanical deals for New
   and exciting sign up agents. Or every Aussie 2 Up etc I researched really became amn Aussie 1 up………which make more sense.

   I would enjoy any financial marketing discounts e-mailed to review
   and why this Doctor should join an individual instead of one of the top 5 leaders listed in the magazine ?

   Please alert

   Dr. Sully

5. Tim Watson

   September 14th, 2008 at 4:19 am

   5

   WOW. I too gave NRU a good hard look. The price point and super high commission kept me from jumping. The ‘product’ itself was secondary in the discussions to the huge comission and I didn’t like that. Sure folks were making money but it felt a bit like a pyramid plan to me. But it did work for some folks in the room so more power to them.
   One thing that NRU has done to help was put me in touch with some great people (outside of NRU discussions). I now run a network business and have a fair amount of success selling to and promoting NRU alumn.
   I liked the networking side of NRU but the product side was not right for me and folks I knew. So we found another company (myo3 world) and saw a product that actually made sense. It’s a health / fitness company that markets appetite control products. I signed up and thought even if it doesn’t work I’ll have a few pills to help some pals lose weight. Well I do have pills, they do help my friends and BOY HAS IT WORKED for me.
   I think the key is to get a company with a real product. myo3 isn’t a magic drink you need to take for 4 months before you think you feel something. One pill and you will stop overeating. It’s that simple. I now market by giving away samples. If people like it they come back and buy or start the business. Much easier and for me much more money.
   And unlike NRU- I tell everyone I work with that if in two months of working together if they follow my lead and are not making money I’ll refund their registration fee (since it’s not even 100 bucks I don’t care who signs up… and I haven’t had to pay anyone off yet!)
   Check it out
   http://5578857.myo3world.com/